The arguing dynamic in your relationship

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Re: The arguing dynamic in your relationship

Postby maoman » Wed Dec 21, 2011 20:24

sandman wrote:My experience too, except with the word "Taiwanese" struck out. :idunno: Just seems to be the way women in my life have always argued.
You're probably right. Except for a couple of years in the early 90s, I've lived in Taiwan since I was 21 so I've never dated a western woman over the age of 22. My experience with non-Taiwanese women is pretty limited. :oops: This is probably just a woman thing and not a Taiwanese woman thing.

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Re: The arguing dynamic in your relationship

Postby Tomas » Wed Dec 21, 2011 20:39

sandman wrote:
In my experience, Taiwanese women are different. They will say things for dramatic effect that they don't wish to be held accountable for. Bringing them up for discussion when the woman's temper has cooled off would be considered bad form, and could very well lead to a resumption of the argument.

My experience too, except with the word "Taiwanese" struck out. :idunno: Just seems to be the way women in my life have always argued, all the way from sisters, high school "sweethearts," later girlfriends -- hell, even my dear old mum has blasted out with some choice morsels from time to time! :lol:


Could be. My mom isn't that way. Nor are my friends' wives back home. My ex-wife, who is American, wasn't that way, except maybe once or twice in the heat of divorce negotiations. Now that I think about it, my sister once told me she was ashamed to have the same blood in her veins as I do :lol: . She was really pissed off then. But many of my friends, both Taiwanese and foreign, report that their Taiwanese wives can scorn the paint off of a chair when they are pissed off :idunno: .

My personal experience is probably very skewed by the fact that I was around mainly repressed Mormon women until I was 30, and then I was single and very commitment-phobic for a while. If a girlfriend on either side of the pond gave me any crap, I generally said something like: "The door is over there. It isn't locked." :oops: :oops: I know, terrible stuff.
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Re: The arguing dynamic in your relationship

Postby divea » Wed Dec 21, 2011 21:09

:popcorn:
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Re: The arguing dynamic in your relationship

Postby Jaboney » Sat Dec 31, 2011 02:43

Truth in cinema.
(But not my truth. Ohhhh, no.)



Someone just spent five minutes telling me that I should watch this.  So I did.  I laughed; she laughed.  At the end, I said, "Ok, it's good."

Then she asks, "Why is it good?"

"Uh, did you watch it?"

Started laughing harder, and typing.

"No! Don't write that down!  You! I will be angry!"

Wow... Now it's been ten minutes of telling me why I shouldn't post this.  Women are strange fish.
Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy. - Spider Robinson
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Re: The arguing dynamic in your relationship

Postby Wah Um Dzai » Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:08

Jaboney wrote:Someone just spent five minutes telling me that I should watch this.  So I did.  I laughed; she laughed.  At the end, I said, "Ok, it's good."

Then she asks, "Why is it good?"

"Uh, did you watch it?"

Started laughing harder, and typing.

"No! Don't write that down!  You! I will be angry!"

Wow... Now it's been ten minutes of telling me why I shouldn't post this.  Women are strange fish.


'Cause she wanted to share/show/teach you something, and then you took it and went to play with it with all of your online friends! That will get you in the dog house for sure!
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Re: The arguing dynamic in your relationship

Postby tsukinodeynatsu » Sat Jan 07, 2012 20:53

maoman wrote:Woman: You did something wrong. You are the world's worst husband/pure evil/a very bad man.

Man: Ok, I can see you're unhappy, and I'm sorry about that. But you did the same thing, just three days ago!

Woman: Oh, so it's all my fault now, is it? Fine, you're perfect. Are you happy now?



The correct response is a back down from the fighting position (sit down and hang your head for bonus points) and say (pleadingly, don't shout):
Of course I'm not happy. I love you, why would I want to argue with you about this? I hate seeing you upset.

(If she's a nice lady you can then try to get her to sit next to you and hug/lean together, and then slowly direct the discussion back to why she's upset. If she keeps saying mean things just keep sounded defeated and saying that you love her and hate arguing with her, it makes it kind of hard to stay mad.)

Unreasonable arguments usually come from feeling neglected for whatever reason, so a line like this is hard to answer because it's an in-your-face reminder that the person who you feel doesn't care about you actually does. She also won't have a stock-standard response line tucked away in her mind somewhere, so she should draw a blank and that (coupled with your back-down from the 'fighting pose') should change the dynamic and make the argument difficult to continue.
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Re: The arguing dynamic in your relationship

Postby Kal El » Sat Jan 07, 2012 22:24

tsukinodeynatsu wrote:
maoman wrote:Woman: You did something wrong. You are the world's worst husband/pure evil/a very bad man.

Man: Ok, I can see you're unhappy, and I'm sorry about that. But you did the same thing, just three days ago!

Woman: Oh, so it's all my fault now, is it? Fine, you're perfect. Are you happy now?



The correct response is a back down from the fighting position (sit down and hang your head for bonus points) and say (pleadingly, don't shout):
Of course I'm not happy. I love you, why would I want to argue with you about this? I hate seeing you upset.

(If she's a nice lady you can then try to get her to sit next to you and hug/lean together, and then slowly direct the discussion back to why she's upset. If she keeps saying mean things just keep sounded defeated and saying that you love her and hate arguing with her, it makes it kind of hard to stay mad.)

Unreasonable arguments usually come from feeling neglected for whatever reason, so a line like this is hard to answer because it's an in-your-face reminder that the person who you feel doesn't care about you actually does. She also won't have a stock-standard response line tucked away in her mind somewhere, so she should draw a blank and that (coupled with your back-down from the 'fighting pose') should change the dynamic and make the argument difficult to continue.

That's kinda scary.
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Re: The arguing dynamic in your relationship

Postby petrichor » Sat Jan 07, 2012 23:09

Good advice from many posters here. tsukinodeynatsu, who could ever sustain an argument with you?

When my husband and I argue we're usually making entirely different points to each other. He talks about what happened, I talk about feelings. Similarly, if I have a problem, he often tries to suggest ways to fix it, when all I actually need is a sympathetic ear. The same stuff, round and round, through 11 years of marriage and counting. :roll:

But I mean what I say, and I'm a woman, or I was the last time I looked.
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Re: The arguing dynamic in your relationship

Postby tsukinodeynatsu » Sun Jan 08, 2012 01:51

bis, why scary?

petrichor, I find that with my husband too, but the other way round! I'm not very good at emotional arguing, I'm far too rational - but my husband seems to make up for it. At least (and this sounds really sexist, but..) being a man he has some self-control, and doesn't start going for the jugular. Often.

Funnily enough, he was the only person that could actually goad me into an argument, too (then again, most of our arguments happened because I brought a problem to him to fix and he got upset - he's one of those 'You're mad because of something I did SO I'M GOING TO BE MAD AT YOU! YOU'RE SO MEAN!' (is this a TW thing?) but with Man Logic & Patronising Explanations thrown in). Eventually I started catching myself and stepping back, and using some version of what I suggested above to diffuse the arguments before they really got going (they were all over stupid things anyway).

We talked about it in snippets (long serious talks don't work for him O.o; is THIS a TW thing too?) and now we pretty much don't argue. We can even debate politics, spirituality and history without arguing (the three biggest triggers before, weirdly enough). I think we've gotten to a point where we realise arguing is pointless, because we're both fairly eloquent in our native tongues and tend to speak particularly well when we argue - ensuring the other one has no idea WTF's going on and meaning we'll be talking about two or three completely different things. He's figured this out too, so we just kinda go 'Yeah, we're talking about different things, right?' 'Yup.' 'OK, tell me your point but make it REALLY EASY to understand, and then I'll tell you mine.' Having to stop and admit that you have no idea what you're talking about is a pretty good emotion diffuser as well.

I've always figured that we were arguing about different things about two or three lines in anyway, and the process I used to use was somethng like diffusing it before it starts and finding a nice way to introduce that we're both talking about different things. Which usually involved asking questions and letting him explain, because Men Like Explaining Things, and he'd get so wrapped up in the explanation that he forgets he was pissed off a few minutes ago. And I'll slip things in during the discussion to make my point, but they'll be questions or 'observations' so he is required to consider them (because it's an academic discussion and not a personal conversation).

:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:

..............Does this make me manipulative?? :idunno: It's just nobody likes arguing, arguing just our natural defence mechanism. If you can remove the instinctive need for a person to defend themself you can remove the drive to argue with you. You need to make sure that you keep control of the situation though, because otherwise you just 'lose' and the other person's 'KICK THEM WHILE THEY'RE DOWN TO MAKE SURE THEY CAN'T COME AT YOU WITH A KNIFE' victory-arguing mechanism might kick in and then you'll never hear the end of it. You have to kind of change your goal from 'win the argument!' to 'make her do what I want so I can find out what she's trying to say!' for it to work.
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Re: The arguing dynamic in your relationship

Postby petrichor » Sun Jan 08, 2012 07:45

tsukinodeynatsu wrote:bis, why scary?

petrichor, I find that with my husband too, but the other way round! I'm not very good at emotional arguing, I'm far too rational - but my husband seems to make up for it. At least (and this sounds really sexist, but..) being a man he has some self-control, and doesn't start going for the jugular. Often.

Funnily enough, he was the only person that could actually goad me into an argument, too (then again, most of our arguments happened because I brought a problem to him to fix and he got upset - he's one of those 'You're mad because of something I did SO I'M GOING TO BE MAD AT YOU! YOU'RE SO MEAN!' (is this a TW thing?) but with Man Logic & Patronising Explanations thrown in). Eventually I started catching myself and stepping back, and using some version of what I suggested above to diffuse the arguments before they really got going (they were all over stupid things anyway).

We talked about it in snippets (long serious talks don't work for him O.o; is THIS a TW thing too?) and now we pretty much don't argue. We can even debate politics, spirituality and history without arguing (the three biggest triggers before, weirdly enough). I think we've gotten to a point where we realise arguing is pointless, because we're both fairly eloquent in our native tongues and tend to speak particularly well when we argue - ensuring the other one has no idea WTF's going on and meaning we'll be talking about two or three completely different things. He's figured this out too, so we just kinda go 'Yeah, we're talking about different things, right?' 'Yup.' 'OK, tell me your point but make it REALLY EASY to understand, and then I'll tell you mine.' Having to stop and admit that you have no idea what you're talking about is a pretty good emotion diffuser as well.

I've always figured that we were arguing about different things about two or three lines in anyway, and the process I used to use was somethng like diffusing it before it starts and finding a nice way to introduce that we're both talking about different things. Which usually involved asking questions and letting him explain, because Men Like Explaining Things, and he'd get so wrapped up in the explanation that he forgets he was pissed off a few minutes ago. And I'll slip things in during the discussion to make my point, but they'll be questions or 'observations' so he is required to consider them (because it's an academic discussion and not a personal conversation).

:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:

..............Does this make me manipulative?? :idunno: It's just nobody likes arguing, arguing just our natural defence mechanism. If you can remove the instinctive need for a person to defend themself you can remove the drive to argue with you. You need to make sure that you keep control of the situation though, because otherwise you just 'lose' and the other person's 'KICK THEM WHILE THEY'RE DOWN TO MAKE SURE THEY CAN'T COME AT YOU WITH A KNIFE' victory-arguing mechanism might kick in and then you'll never hear the end of it. You have to kind of change your goal from 'win the argument!' to 'make her do what I want so I can find out what she's trying to say!' for it to work.


Ooooh, you're so good. I wish I was married to you (in an intellectual way, you understand!) You have a perfect emotional understanding of argument dynamics.

I don't think it's true that no one likes arguing, though. I think some people love it. My ex could make an argument out of absolutely nothing. He seemed to have a kind of addiction to it in fact.
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Re: The arguing dynamic in your relationship

Postby Kal El » Fri Mar 09, 2012 13:20

Some helpful tips from Niecy Nash here: Fighting Fair

I like the ending where she says, "I never tell my husband that he can never go anywhere with his friends, you know? Girls are gonna be out there with skirts and 'what's goin' on?', you know? What you wanna do is make sure you take care of him, and send send him out there empty. You feelin' me? You take the hunt outta him before he goes!"
:orz: :bravo: :bow:
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Re: The arguing dynamic in your relationship

Postby sandman » Fri Mar 09, 2012 14:26

Kal El wrote:Some helpful tips from Niecy Nash here: Fighting Fair

I like the ending where she says, "I never tell my husband that he can never go anywhere with his friends, you know? Girls are gonna be out there with skirts and 'what's goin' on?', you know? What you wanna do is make sure you take care of him, and send send him out there empty. You feelin' me? You take the hunt outta him before he goes!"
:orz: :bravo: :bow:

To me that is not too far removed from her saying: "Hey girls! Stay barefoot in the kitchen!"
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Re: The arguing dynamic in your relationship

Postby Kal El » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:56

sandman wrote:
Kal El wrote:Some helpful tips from Niecy Nash here: Fighting Fair

I like the ending where she says, "I never tell my husband that he can never go anywhere with his friends, you know? Girls are gonna be out there with skirts and 'what's goin' on?', you know? What you wanna do is make sure you take care of him, and send send him out there empty. You feelin' me? You take the hunt outta him before he goes!"
:orz: :bravo: :bow:

To me that is not too far removed from her saying: "Hey girls! Stay barefoot in the kitchen!"

I really didn't get that out of it, but you might be right. :idunno:
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Sir Winston Churchill

Heathen filth, the lot of you.
Dr Kurt Langstrom

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Re: The arguing dynamic in your relationship

Postby Got To Be Kidding » Sun Mar 11, 2012 00:25

Kal El wrote:Some helpful tips from Niecy Nash here: Fighting Fair

I like the ending where she says, "I never tell my husband that he can never go anywhere with his friends, you know? Girls are gonna be out there with skirts and 'what's goin' on?', you know? What you wanna do is make sure you take care of him, and send send him out there empty. You feelin' me? You take the hunt outta him before he goes!"
:orz: :bravo: :bow:


I'm sending this to my wife! :beer:
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Re: The arguing dynamic in your relationship

Postby Diomedes » Wed Sep 19, 2012 00:51

My relationship in a nutshell:

Woman: You did something wrong. You are the world's worst husband/pure evil/a very bad man.

Man: Yup.

Woman: You don't care, do you?

Man: Nope.



Believe it or not, it works surprisingly well.
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