10 Things Western Women Should Know About Dating Taiwanese Guys

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Re: 10 Things Western Women Should Know About Dating Taiwanese Guys

Postby Icon » Fri Oct 18, 2013 09:33

jimipresley wrote:Despite the incompetence in most Taiwanese managerial positions, I'm pretty sure that the PR and advertising people do a bit of homework.

If, as some are arguing, young, unattached Taiwanese males are mostly playas, out for a good night and a quick shag, why does 99% of local advertising tell a different story?

Why, in virtually every commercial, are women either depicted as demure or childish, with the voices of pre-teens?

Is this a massive fail on the part of the multi-billion dollar PR industry, or have they actually done a bit of research?

Sex doesn't sell nearly as well in Taiwan as naivete. :twocents:


According to studies, there are some explanations:

1. Chauvinism: the machos expect a damsel in distress that needs to be rescued, the image of the woman has to be "childish", in need of guidance and protection. Little do they know that the kitten turns into a tiger...

2. Unattainable roles for women: this is the feminist theory. In order to take power away from women, you put out this impossible goals, as said, 1.75 m in height and 49 kilos in weight, long fluffy salon ready hair perfect nails and makeup and 16 forever, not to mention the Minnie Mouse voices -see point number 1. Just imagine the health consequences of no muscle definition -and hence osteoporosis- not to mention brain cell loss.

3. Social conservative image: as an inheritance from the Martial Era/Confucianism/etc., very fixed mental structures, due to very fixed social structures. Like in politics, where they try to emulate the Emperors -and those are their historical references. Women are dangerous -can topple empires- so the best women are the non-dangerous kind. Secret fantasy guys wish to be those rich guys with several wives -a la certain plastic tycoon. But that would be overstepping social boundaries, so hush hush. Guys face serious social consequences for infidelity, but generally speaking, the more money, the less consequences. As usual, here and everywhere. Women... it is the End. Lose everything kind of end. That is why so many divorced women still live under the husband's roof. Lose kids, money, reputation.

4. Cute culture: due to 1, 2, 3 and copying Japan. Then we have guys copying Korean pop stars... and you do not know which is which -male or female I mean.

My :twocents:
"Lo urgente no deja tiempo para lo importante". Mafalda
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Eat the delicious food. Walk in the sunshine. Jump in the ocean. Say the truth that you’re carrying in your heart like hidden treasure. Be silly. Be kind. Be weird. There’s no time for anything else
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Re: 10 Things Western Women Should Know About Dating Taiwanese Guys

Postby Toad » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:14

Also, there's a big difference between what people say they do (or think) and what people actually do (or think). This makes things like surveys and focus groups unreliable at best, so the PR/advertising people don't necessarily know what they're doing.

Young Taiwanese guys might say they're looking for a quiet, stay-at-home wife because that's what their elders and betters expect them to say. What they're really looking for is what every young human male is look for.
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Re: 10 Things Western Women Should Know About Dating Taiwanese Guys

Postby channamasala » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:57

Toad wrote:Also, there's a big difference between what people say they do (or think) and what people actually do (or think). This makes things like surveys and focus groups unreliable at best, so the PR/advertising people don't necessarily know what they're doing.

Young Taiwanese guys might say they're looking for a quiet, stay-at-home wife because that's what their elders and betters expect them to say. What they're really looking for is what every young human male is look for.


Yup (though I'd say "man" :wink: ). What someone likes is what they like, and social conditioning can't necessarily wipe that away. It's just more common here to repeat what you've been told you should like, despite what you actually go for, whereas we've got more room to voice openly our ideas on the kind of person we like just due to cultural practice.

Thing is, I see a lot of those salon-ready hair, 40kg "oerfect women" with ridiculous plastic eyelashes in Taiwan, but I see just as many or more normal women, with normal hair, often not wearing makeup, with normal bodies and normal skin, normal voices and normal intelligence, and varying degrees of outgoingness (as any humans would have). And they've got boyfriends and dates and husbands too. So.
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Re: 10 Things Western Women Should Know About Dating Taiwanese Guys

Postby John Ross » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:37

Many years ago I read an obscure nineteenth century study from a brilliant but now-forgotten German Sinologist, Professor Erdinger von Becks, that examined the question of the relatively weak Chinese libido. His conclusion was that it was the nature of Chinese ancestor worship that dampened the ardor. In a nutshell, having the spirits of your recently departed grannie and assorted relatives hovering over your bed while you were on the job was rather akin to a bucket of cold water. And even today, we see this impulse to perform the deed away from the ancestral altar - hence the popularity of motels and such places of debauchery.

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Re: 10 Things Western Women Should Know About Dating Taiwanese Guys

Postby Big Vern » Fri Oct 18, 2013 13:07

Was that study co-authored by Professors Oettinger and Paulaner? If so then I think I am also studying it today as Friday is my day off.

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Re: 10 Things Western Women Should Know About Dating Taiwanese Guys

Postby Icon » Fri Oct 18, 2013 14:29

channamasala wrote:
Toad wrote:Also, there's a big difference between what people say they do (or think) and what people actually do (or think). This makes things like surveys and focus groups unreliable at best, so the PR/advertising people don't necessarily know what they're doing.

Young Taiwanese guys might say they're looking for a quiet, stay-at-home wife because that's what their elders and betters expect them to say. What they're really looking for is what every young human male is look for.


Yup (though I'd say "man" :wink: ). What someone likes is what they like, and social conditioning can't necessarily wipe that away. It's just more common here to repeat what you've been told you should like, despite what you actually go for, whereas we've got more room to voice openly our ideas on the kind of person we like just due to cultural practice.

Thing is, I see a lot of those salon-ready hair, 40kg "oerfect women" with ridiculous plastic eyelashes in Taiwan, but I see just as many or more normal women, with normal hair, often not wearing makeup, with normal bodies and normal skin, normal voices and normal intelligence, and varying degrees of outgoingness (as any humans would have). And they've got boyfriends and dates and husbands too. So.


Exactly. Normal people dating normal people. But people dating "images" are dating other "images"... and that's where trouble ensues. Or an image clashes with a normal... Still, one wonders how deep social expectations go, from dating to the workplace. Society in general is distorted by these.
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Re: 10 Things Western Women Should Know About Dating Taiwanese Guys

Postby Toad » Fri Oct 18, 2013 14:34

John Ross wrote:Many years ago I read an obscure nineteenth century study from a brilliant but now-forgotten German Sinologist, Professor Erdinger von Becks, that examined the question of the relatively weak Chinese libido. His conclusion was that it was the nature of Chinese ancestor worship that dampened the ardor. In a nutshell, having the spirits of your recently departed grannie and assorted relatives hovering over your bed while you were on the job was rather akin to a bucket of cold water. And even today, we see this impulse to perform the deed away from the ancestral altar - hence the popularity of motels and such places of debauchery.


In the interests of science, I suggest a controlled experiment would be in order. Young Chinese couples should be sent off to motels, half of which are fitted out with an ancestral shrine in place of the customary 100-channels-of-porn TV. They should then be polled on exit to determine their level of satisfaction with the experience. As a control, there should be a second set of couples comprising middle-aged foreign men recruited from bulletin boards and young Chinese car-show models. I'm sure the gubmint, considering their present obsession with boosting the population, would be happy to sponsor such worthy research.

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Re: 10 Things Western Women Should Know About Dating Taiwanese Guys

Postby Big Vern » Fri Oct 18, 2013 14:46

The Japanese porn they show in motels actually puts me off sex. I think it's a combination of the weird themes, high pitched squealing, and pixelated private parts.

I think I'd be more likely to get my mojo going in a room with a shrine.
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Re: 10 Things Western Women Should Know About Dating Taiwanese Guys

Postby channamasala » Mon Oct 21, 2013 01:21

John Ross - I think today it's the small apartments, kids and living with Grandma that does it. When Granny Chen can hear you from the next room, not 'cause she's dead but 'cause the walls are thin, and your kid's in the Japanese room because you had to give the nice other bedroom to Granny Chen, it's kind of hard to get goin'. And Granny Chen has made it very clear she wants you to have two sons and a daughter....I'd be as dry as the Gobi too.

I do know from talking to friends (and just observing the brisk business at love hotels) that libidos run plenty high, it's just hard to get your rocks (or lady-rocks) off considering most peoples' living situations. Even hotels that aren't love hotels - if the walls aren't great, I've definitely heard a lot of rumpy-pumpy going on.

Icon - "images dating other images". YEP. Happens all around the world, too. I lived in Washington DC in that brief sweet spot when the economy didn't suck and young'uns were buying nice condos in high rises in Arlington, wearing Banana Republic, drinking at the Sequoias, and calling themselves "young professionals". I saw more "images dating images" than I care to remember.

Porn at Love Motels - I dunno, I've come across some pretty raunchy unpixellated stuff.

Also, you have not truly lived in Taiwan until you've stayed in the Batman Room at the Eden Exoticism Hotel in Kaohsiung. http://www.eden-motel.com.tw/index.php/room/word/item/31-315 I surprised my husband with a night in it once, not even for ALL TEH SEXXX, but for the laughs.

What I didn't get at love hotels for the longest time was why there are rarely doors on the bathrooms. So you could do whatever your business was and the other person could hear, somewhat see and maybe kind of smell you. I was at a loss - I thought "maybe some people are just into toilet stuff, but there can't be so many people in Taiwan who are into that to justify it being so common" - until one of my friends let me in on the reason: if a man brings a prostitute there, and he needs to go, he can use the bathroom and still be somewhat alert to what she's doing. He can make sure she doesn't steal his wallet, make phone calls to some bruisers who are going to blackmail him or go through his things. OOooooooh. Still puts me off though.
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Re: 10 Things Western Women Should Know About Dating Taiwanese Guys

Postby Lili » Wed Oct 23, 2013 02:10

Being (maybe) the closest in age/culture to the Taiwanese mentioned in aforementioned posts, according to my experiance in both situations I would say there is only one difference between Taiwanese/Japanese and Western counterparts: future planning.

Westerners avoid future planning like its a damned plague coming to attack your balls and lady-parts. They will leave a relationship before they will commit to (or even acknowledge the possibility of) future plans as a pair.

Taiwanese and Japanese are the exact opposite. Once they are in a not just-for-fucks relationship, it is straight to future planning, or at least living as if they were already agreed.


I realized this in Chinese class after talking with my teacher about breakups between Westerners and Taiwanese.
Westerners dont value eachother as partners the way Taiwanese and Japanese do.
Its Western taboo for young people to consider a significant extended time period, like having a family, future career goals, etc. Even if they've been together for years (some of my friends are like this. Like, dude. Its time to get your asses married and acknowledge the fact that you two are important for eachother's future and well-being.)
At the same time, this leads to unbreakable abusive relationships for the Taiwanese and Japanese where the woman is cheated on, etc and cant leave, or the guy is stuck in some honor-bound moral code to support his (future)(fiance)(wife).

I guess its pick your poison. :idunno:
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Re: 10 Things Western Women Should Know About Dating Taiwanese Guys

Postby Icon » Wed Oct 23, 2013 09:55

Lilli, that is an interesting point of view. I'd say we Westerners are jaded: if it doesn't work this time around, we have many other partners/weddings ahead of us. I can't imagine how can you dedicate more than 5 years or more of your life to someone without being married -or considered practically married- and then wash/rinse/repeat. At least where I come from, being legally married or not does not make a difference. You a couple, you are the same under the Law -unless gay, of course, but even that is changing. equal division of assets and all that jazz. Children have same rights in or out of marriage.

Many people criticize the long engagements -7 years?! you kiddin' me!- or even the arranged marriages. But at least there is some stability in those. I also appreciate giving marriage its due value, not like in the ol country where guys must have mistresses or else are ostracized, feel the need to propagate their seed indiscriminately or where no one, male or female, respects the marriage contract -ironic in view of the Law, but it is assumed everyone cheats. At least as you say, when they leave, they take half the house.

The legal aspect should be in the back of the mind of any Western woman dating a Taiwanese guy: if you get married, and the thing goes South, you're in deep. Though things are changing, you can be bamboozled and lose kids/house/money. It is not that easy to be kicked out anymore but the fight will not be fair.
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None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Eat the delicious food. Walk in the sunshine. Jump in the ocean. Say the truth that you’re carrying in your heart like hidden treasure. Be silly. Be kind. Be weird. There’s no time for anything else
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Re: 10 Things Western Women Should Know About Dating Taiwanese Guys

Postby channamasala » Wed Oct 23, 2013 15:37

Lili wrote:Being (maybe) the closest in age/culture to the Taiwanese mentioned in aforementioned posts, according to my experiance in both situations I would say there is only one difference between Taiwanese/Japanese and Western counterparts: future planning.

Westerners avoid future planning like its a damned plague coming to attack your balls and lady-parts. They will leave a relationship before they will commit to (or even acknowledge the possibility of) future plans as a pair.

Taiwanese and Japanese are the exact opposite. Once they are in a not just-for-fucks relationship, it is straight to future planning, or at least living as if they were already agreed.


I realized this in Chinese class after talking with my teacher about breakups between Westerners and Taiwanese.
Westerners dont value eachother as partners the way Taiwanese and Japanese do.
Its Western taboo for young people to consider a significant extended time period, like having a family, future career goals, etc. Even if they've been together for years (some of my friends are like this. Like, dude. Its time to get your asses married and acknowledge the fact that you two are important for eachother's future and well-being.)
At the same time, this leads to unbreakable abusive relationships for the Taiwanese and Japanese where the woman is cheated on, etc and cant leave, or the guy is stuck in some honor-bound moral code to support his (future)(fiance)(wife).

I guess its pick your poison. :idunno:


Some Westerners (and people) may well - I acknowledge there's a cultural undercurrent where these things happen more frequently in the West. But in my own circle, that isn't really true: the weddings started when we were 23 and, while someone we know only gets married every few years (even through our late 20s it was this way), they haven't stopped. Our Western friends - guys and gals both - are totally in favor of marriage. Of the ones who are still single, a few of them don't want to get married but most hope to someday.
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Re: 10 Things Western Women Should Know About Dating Taiwanese Guys

Postby sandman » Wed Oct 23, 2013 15:43

someone we know only gets married every few years

Reminds me of what a former colleague said when I announced my impending nuptials: "Congratulations! Its something that happens only a few times in life."
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