Time to lose weight.

Find medical, health and fitness related resources in Taiwan. Discussions on wide ranging issues from basic health questions to fitness training and diet through to major surgery.

Moderator: jimipresley

Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Icon » Fri Dec 02, 2016 23:44

This quote I like:

This is not a judgment on what you choose to eat. If you hunger for a cheese product grilled between bread that’s been stripped of its nutrition, along with a bowl of Campbell’s tomato soup (made with tomato paste, corn syrup and potassium chloride), fine. It was one of my favorite childhood meals. Just be aware. Buy fat-free half-and-half if that’s what you like; just know what it is you’re putting in your body and why.
"Lo urgente no deja tiempo para lo importante". Mafalda
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Eat the delicious food. Walk in the sunshine. Jump in the ocean. Say the truth that you’re carrying in your heart like hidden treasure. Be silly. Be kind. Be weird. There’s no time for anything else
User avatar
Icon
Taiwanease Deity
 
Posts: 5246
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:25
Has given kudos: 521 times
Has gotten kudos: 815 times

Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Toad » Sat Dec 03, 2016 18:09

Cork said that the composition of gut bacteria is notoriously difficult to shift, however, and that any treatment would involve a long course of antibiotics to eradicate the existing population of microbes, rather than being a case of eating “a few probiotic yoghurts”. “If you try to introduce something else in a small quantity the bacteria in your gut out-competes them,” he said.

Oh FFS. This is unbelievably irresponsible bullshit. While it's true that you can't fix things just with a few doses of yoghurt, it really winds me up when "scientists" want to roll out the nuclear option: blasting everything in sight with antibiotics. This is extremely risky, for the same reason using herbicides is risky: when you create an empty ecological niche, it will fill with whatever organisms are able to thrive there. In the case of a blasted wasteland inside your gut (which, I suspect, is what Icon ended up with) there is absolutely no way of knowing what will move in: bear in mind that you've killed all the desirable colonies as well as the undesirable ones.

"Seeding" with desirable microbes might work ("poo transplants" have had some success) but if it fails disastrously, you've got a bigger problem than you started with, especially if you create a bunch of antibiotic-resistant "bad" bacteria while pursuing your scorched-earth policy.

Anyway, all ecosystems evolve to fit the resources available. If you eat fattening food, then obviously your gut will be filled with organisms that thrive on that kind of diet. If you eat a different diet, then eventually they will displaced by others that thrive on that. So it might take a few months; what of it? You're supposed to be changing your eating habits permanently. A diet is not just for Christmas.

Incidentally, there's another strawman-based rant about Atkins in one of the links:

Atkins-style diets cancel out benefits of weight loss, study finds

A study found that when women lost excess weight by eating a high-protein, low-carbohydrate diet they appeared to forgo some of the usual health benefits, including those linked to diabetes and heart disease.

Wonderful result, of course, because it means governments can carry on pretending they were right all along. Slight problem is that virtually nobody recommends a high-protein diet for weight loss. Atkins, and all other similar weight-loss diets, emphasize swapping out carbs for fat, with a modest increase in protein.

The full text is here:

http://www.cell.com/action/showMethods? ... %2931286-4

Their "high protein" diet doesn't even remotely resemble the Atkins protocol. It's based on low-fat commercial microwave meals supplemented with whey protein. Just disgracefully poor science. Want to study the Atkins diet? That's fine; start by actually finding out what it is first.

The scientists said it was not clear why insulin sensitivity didn’t improve in the high-protein group, but suggested that it could be linked to the body essentially having to flush out “excess fuel”.

Good grief :facepalm: . It's because, in the absence of any other source of energy (fat or carbs) amino acids not needed for other purposes are converted to glucose. High-protein meals cause a modest but prolonged release of insulin for this reason. In other words, eating a high-protein diet is approximately equivalent to eating a high-carb diet. This is common knowledge among actual scientists. The conversion process is very inefficient, and the subjects lost weight, so there was almost certainly no "excess fuel" in the high-protein arm of the study.

just know what it is you’re putting in your body and why.

Well yeah. But. The bottom line is that many people place a very low value on their own health. I know several people who know their diet is the reason they're fat and ill, but they just don't want to stop. They all say the same things: "I like my cakes". "I like eating rice". End of conversation.

OTOH you really can't force people to eat certain things. That way madness lies.

I just got back from the sunny version of North Korea (otherwise known as The Philippines) where I had occasion to buy a can of evaporated milk. Now, you might reasonably expect that this would contain milk that has been evaporated. But no. The first two ingredients on the list are palm oil and corn syrup (ie., HFCS). "Milk solids" appears at item 4 or 5, IIRC. Welcome to the wonderful world of international food, where lying is par for the course. I wonder how many Filipinos know that this concoction is (a) rather addictive and (b) pretty much guaranteed to make you fat and/or diabetic if you eat it in any quantity?

This isn't anything new. Consider Bavaria's Reinheitsgebot, a law which dictated that beer may only contain malt, hops, and water (yeast was unknown at the time). The immediate result was to make all German beer taste basically the same, and this is still true today. The law had a worthy intent: to stop beer manufacturers filling their beer with dubious shite. England had a similar problem and made somewhat-similar laws. But we really don't want the gubmint telling us what we can and can't eat.

Governments have tried labelling laws mandating that fake foods (eg., margarine) should be labelled as such, but that doesn't seem to work either. People still buy it because they don't know it's going to harm them.

Taxes? I dislike taxing things on principle, although removing subsidies for grains and sugar would be an awfully good start.

I dunno what the answer is. I wouldn't like to see bureaucrats dictating what we eat or don't eat. But it seems people need more incentive than "this is not good for you" to eat proper food, and manufacturers need stronger incentives to stop selling crap.
User avatar
Toad
Taiwanease Aristocracy
 
Posts: 2723
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:50
Has given kudos: 845 times
Has gotten kudos: 638 times

Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Icon » Sat Dec 03, 2016 23:13

I am telling you, those enzymes are magical. They are really doing the trick. I even gave one of the bottles to my neighbor who had her operation - of the same problem, appendicitis- a week earlier, and thus avoided the scorched earth medications they gave me because I ended up with peritonitis - being young and strong. Interestingly, she has been suffering from similar problems as me. They told her the same thing they told me: messing with the intestines is tricky, when you touch them, they react badly. She was taking some awful Chinese medicine, so I was glad to share the enzimes because if they work as well as they did with me, she will feel better and avoid icky evil tasting powders of who knows what.

I agree that definitively the diets have to be shaped. Now that I add more protein I feel better. Avoiding soy and milk. Testing what creates what reaction. More awareness.

Interestingly, I fit into my old snow gear even though I am “heavier”. Yet the measurement and comfort do not lie. And that is OK by me.

We usually buy condensed and evaporated milk at the Indonesian store to make tres leches. Will check the ingredients list more throughly next time. Icky. Just looked at the last batch I bought from the Japanese store. Two ingredients listed only: milk and sugar. I also got some “fermented butter” from Hokkaido, which I bought wrongly because it is salted. But it should be interesting.
"Lo urgente no deja tiempo para lo importante". Mafalda
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Eat the delicious food. Walk in the sunshine. Jump in the ocean. Say the truth that you’re carrying in your heart like hidden treasure. Be silly. Be kind. Be weird. There’s no time for anything else
User avatar
Icon
Taiwanease Deity
 
Posts: 5246
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:25
Has given kudos: 521 times
Has gotten kudos: 815 times

Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Toad » Sun Dec 04, 2016 13:48

Icon wrote:magical.

They probably are that :)

Enzymes are proteins, so they'll get denatured quite quickly in your stomach by pepsin, or possibly just deactivated by unsuitable pH or temperature. Pepsin will dismantle other pepsin molecules, so it has to be continually synthesized. It's impossible to supplement it orally. Same with the majority of natural enzymes. If that were not so, all the many enzymes in your food (or for that matter the ones you synthesize) would wreak havoc inside you. You'd dissolve into a pile of mush every time you ate an apple, which would be annoying.

The placebo effect is a wonderful thing. I'm not saying this is all in your head, but the most likely explanation is that you're just getting better. By yourself. It's what bodies do. If the enzymes make you feel better that's fine, but it's highly unlikely you have a problem with enzyme synthesis, especially if the doctors told you that you don't. Try stopping them and see if you still feel fine. Or if you want to be excessively scientific, get someone to tamper with your capsules and give you sugar-filled ones at some future point in time.

They told her the same thing they told me: messing with the intestines is tricky, when you touch them, they react badly.

That's probably all it boils down to. If you had peritonitis, you were literally snatched from the brink of death. You don't cheat the grim reaper and get off lightly.

Testing what creates what reaction. More awareness.

:thumbsup: I'm sure you'll find more and more things that you can add back in time, like the fish.

We usually buy condensed and evaporated milk at the Indonesian store to make tres leches. Will check the ingredients list more throughly next time. Icky. Just looked at the last batch I bought from the Japanese store. Two ingredients listed only: milk and sugar.

Yeah, they have laws in Japan. In the Philippines big corporations can do whatever the feck they like. Dunno about Indonesia, but I'm guessing it's similar.

I also got some “fermented butter” from Hokkaido, which I bought wrongly because it is salted. But it should be interesting.

Is that the same as rancid yak butter? :lol:
User avatar
Toad
Taiwanease Aristocracy
 
Posts: 2723
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:50
Has given kudos: 845 times
Has gotten kudos: 638 times

Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby flike » Sun Dec 04, 2016 14:18

I too find it more than a little disturbing to cast off peritonitis as a casual survival. Jesus. Peritonitis is the introduction of bacteria of the whatever persuasion in a body space that's been sterile for as long as the body has lived. It is NOT something to take lightly. For very good reason peritonitis is almost always a death sentence.

For gods' sake, all y'all take care there in Taiwan.
flike
Taiwanease Gentry
 
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 20:33
Has given kudos: 104 times
Has gotten kudos: 57 times

Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Icon » Sun Dec 04, 2016 21:03

But but but the enzime pills have a coating to survive the digestive track. So the pre and probiotics I take. Heck, I even switched fibers, no pyllium. Buah!!!! Sniff.

In Taiwan, we play Frogger everytime we cross the street. We live on the edge. Who needs medical reasons to kick the bucket when we have blue trucks?

And I am lucky. I bumped into one of the fellow patients at the hospital. She had cancer, which left her with frequent bathroom runs. She lost her job and the only thing she can do now is hand out fliers at the MRT entrance.
"Lo urgente no deja tiempo para lo importante". Mafalda
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Eat the delicious food. Walk in the sunshine. Jump in the ocean. Say the truth that you’re carrying in your heart like hidden treasure. Be silly. Be kind. Be weird. There’s no time for anything else
User avatar
Icon
Taiwanease Deity
 
Posts: 5246
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:25
Has given kudos: 521 times
Has gotten kudos: 815 times

Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Dragonbones » Sun Dec 04, 2016 21:41

Toad, as a former home brewer and fan of German beers, I have to take some exception to "The immediate result was to make all German beer taste basically the same, and this is still true today." Although I agree that the restrictions were too severe and disallowed fruit flavors etc., the fact is that German beers within that formula have a very wide range of tastes because of the wide variety of malts, hops, recipes and brewing techniques. Many of them taste very different and are absolutely superb! Of course, I'll be the first to admit that adherence to the 'purity' law is no guarantee whatsoever of actual quality and taste, and that the biggest brewers so all spew out mediocre and similar beers, which is likely related to your point.
“To cook for the pleasure of it, to devote a portion of our leisure to it, is to declare our independence from the corporations seeking to organize our every waking moment into yet another occasion for consumption." --Michael Pollan
User avatar
Dragonbones
Taiwanease Deity
 
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 19:59
Location: Donghu, Neihu, Taibei
Has given kudos: 492 times
Has gotten kudos: 1009 times

Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Toad » Sun Dec 04, 2016 22:19

DB, don't get me wrong: I like German beers too. The fact that they are (or rather were) allowed only a certain limited set of ingredients forced them to get creative with what they had: thus a complex array of different malts, at least half-a-dozen hop varieties in common use, and massively complicated brewing procedures - triple decoctions and whatnot - to squeeze out that last bit of complexity and depth (or lack of it, in the case of Pilsner types). But there's only so far you can go with that. My point was this: it's not up to the government to decide if sugar, or malted wheat, or flaked rice is an appropriate input to the brewing process. As long as nothing toxic is going in, all is well. There were endless interventions of this type in Europe, mainly for tax-raising or political reasons rather than concern for public safety, and similar shenanigans go on today in the food market: America's present terrible diet is due in no small part to politicians and food manufacturers colluding to produce low-cost, nutrition-free shit under the guise of It's All For Your Own Good.

But but but the enzime pills have a coating to survive the digestive track.

Yeah, I know they do this. But one might then ask: how does the capsule 'know' when to release its payload? When it hits the toilet bowl, perhaps? :smile:

Anyways, I was just saying you might be healthier than you imagine. There's really no good reason why your body would have stopped producing its own enzymes (and you'd be in huge trouble if it did). If you stop the enzyme pills you might find you still feel OK.
User avatar
Toad
Taiwanease Aristocracy
 
Posts: 2723
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:50
Has given kudos: 845 times
Has gotten kudos: 638 times

Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Big Vern » Sun Dec 04, 2016 22:28

I'm not sure if I've posted this tale before, but my mate had what we concluded after the event was an ergot reaction to a Taiwanese wheat beer. He halucinated, shat himself, puked all over the shop, and couldn't walk. He also denounced me as a witch.
Big Vern
Taiwanease Deity
 
Posts: 4274
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:37
Has given kudos: 422 times
Has gotten kudos: 699 times

Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Toad » Sun Dec 04, 2016 23:08

Big Vern wrote:He also denounced me as a witch.

Typical. Blame other people. :eh:

That Taiwan wheat beer is a bit awful, though.
User avatar
Toad
Taiwanease Aristocracy
 
Posts: 2723
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:50
Has given kudos: 845 times
Has gotten kudos: 638 times

Time to lose weight.

Postby HeadhonchoII » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:14

Icon wrote:But but but the enzime pills have a coating to survive the digestive track. So the pre and probiotics I take. Heck, I even switched fibers, no pyllium. Buah!!!! Sniff.

In Taiwan, we play Frogger everytime we cross the street. We live on the edge. Who needs medical reasons to kick the bucket when we have blue trucks?

And I am lucky. I bumped into one of the fellow patients at the hospital. She had cancer, which left her with frequent bathroom runs. She lost her job and the only thing she can do now is hand out fliers at the MRT entrance.



There's an anti inflammation treatment which involves taking proteases. It seems to have some effect so it might be that they retain some biological activity or affect our microbiome in some
Way.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... n_sectitle

No real work goes into it from pharma companies because they are relatively cheap natural enzymes and not patentable.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
But you got to ask yourself the question....what would astronaut Chris Hatfield do?
HeadhonchoII
Taiwanease Gentry
 
Posts: 1730
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 16:45
Has given kudos: 126 times
Has gotten kudos: 250 times

Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Big Vern » Wed Jan 04, 2017 17:14

I went to the gym today and weighed myself. I'm down to 78kgs if I stand flat on the scales. If I rock forward I'm 80, and if I lean back I'm 76. :idunno: Either way a big improvement on the 86+ I peaked at last summer.

I'm taking it as goal achieved, anyway. Now I'm targeting 76kgs. I've no idea how I'm going to do it, though, as I've made few lifestyle changes apart from slightly smaller portions and a half-hearted attempt not to eat carbs. I have also been hitting the gym pretty hard. Suppose I'll have to continue doing more of the same.

These users gave kudos to the author Big Vern for the post (total 3):
Just Jennifer (Fri Mar 17, 2017 23:43) • Toad (Thu Jan 05, 2017 20:13) • Kal El (Wed Jan 04, 2017 21:48)
Big Vern
Taiwanease Deity
 
Posts: 4274
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:37
Has given kudos: 422 times
Has gotten kudos: 699 times

Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Kal El » Wed Jan 04, 2017 21:49

Big Vern wrote:I went to the gym today and weighed myself. I'm down to 78kgs if I stand flat on the scales. If I rock forward I'm 80, and if I lean back I'm 76. :idunno: Either way a big improvement on the 86+ I peaked at last summer.

I'm taking it as goal achieved, anyway. Now I'm targeting 76kgs. I've no idea how I'm going to do it, though, as I've made few lifestyle changes apart from slightly smaller portions and a half-hearted attempt not to eat carbs. I have also been hitting the gym pretty hard. Suppose I'll have to continue doing more of the same.

Great job!

While you're hitting the gym, check out Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength.
Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
Sir Winston Churchill

Heathen filth, the lot of you.
Dr Kurt Langstrom

人不可貌相,海水不可斗量
User avatar
Kal El
Taiwanease Deity
 
Posts: 6557
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 23:17
Location: 台南, 台灣
Has given kudos: 1119 times
Has gotten kudos: 1072 times

Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Big Vern » Fri Mar 17, 2017 09:32

Don't cut back on the cheese:

http://www.ucd.ie/newsandopinion/news/2 ... olesterol/

I haven't looked at the paper itself, so I'm assuming the authors took into account socio-economic factors. I'd imagine that cheese eaters tend to be higher income.
Big Vern
Taiwanease Deity
 
Posts: 4274
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:37
Has given kudos: 422 times
Has gotten kudos: 699 times

Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Toad » Sun Mar 19, 2017 19:47

Big Vern wrote:I'd imagine that cheese eaters tend to be higher income.

Or surrender-monkeys. The article brings to mind the "French Paradox", namely that the French eat lots of things which are supposed to give them heart disease, but don't. Of course, it isn't a paradox at all, but a simple refutation of a faulty hypothesis, and it's now more-or-less accepted that total serum cholesterol doesn't correlate with anything of major import. So observing no change in cholesterol is about as interesting as observing no change in nose-hair length.

But yeah, you're probably right about socioeconomic factors. It's stuff like that that makes meaningful dietary studies difficult or impossible.
User avatar
Toad
Taiwanease Aristocracy
 
Posts: 2723
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:50
Has given kudos: 845 times
Has gotten kudos: 638 times

PreviousNext

Return to Health & Fitness